say no to knowledge

This was on women's hour, sometimes I really dispair. Please listen to this.

By the way if anyone can tell me how to get this stuff into my blog so people don't have to go off the bbc to hear it, please tell me. I really worry about how, in the years to come, all my complaining won't have a context as all my links will have disappeared.


Anyway, this is the blurb from the website introducing the piece...

Can you tell your Bellis Perennis from your Digitalis Purpureas? - should we encourage the bringing back of Latin names into the ordinary gardener's lexicon?

Can you tell your Bellis Perennis from your Digitalis Purpureas*? The new President of the Royal Horticultural Society, Elizabeth Banks, says she wants to encourage the bringing back of Latin names into the ordinary gardener’s lexicon. Will this argument encourage a broader knowledge of horticulture, and make us more adept in the garden? Gardeners Jamie Dickinson and Jenny Hendy join Sheila to talk about the dumbing-down of the green-fingered art.
(*Daisy and Foxgloves)



My main problem with what I heard on the show was again how the idea that someone has spoken out in a sensible and informed way about a serious subject was reduced to a joke. Let us stop some folk outside b&q for some comment, excuse me? I thought radio 4 was an intelligent station not local itv news.

This is how it was reported in the telegraph...

BBC must end 'dumbed down' gardening shows says new RHS chief

The first woman president of the Royal Horticultural Society has urged the BBC to stop “dumbing down” its gardening programmes.

By Alastair Jamieson
Published: 12:04PM BST 04 Jul 2010

Elizabeth Banks, a landscape architect, said the broadcaster appeared to be “scared of plants” and was guilty of patronising Britain’s gardeners.

She added that she planned to meet the corporation to discuss its lucrative contract to cover th Chelsea Flower Show, thought to be worth about £1m a year until it expires in 2013.

In an interview with the Sunday Times, she said she wanted the BBC to focus more on plants and improve its decades-old programme, Gardeners’ World.
She said: “I think the whole gardening issue at the BBC has gone downhill. If you look at Gardeners’ world, they’ve panicked and lost the essence.
“I don’t like patronising people and I feel that’s what they are doing.
“I will certainly look at our contract with the BBC to cover the Chelsea Flower Show and see if we can get a bit more quality. I think they’re making a mistake in dumbing down.
“The plantsmanship, the excitement, the range of plants seem to have gone. I do feel the BBC is scared of plants and plant names.”
She added that she hoped the BBC would use the Latin names for plants rather than common names that often vary between different countries.
“It’s almost as if they are talking down to us. They are scared of being too snobby.” 


And then this was one of the stories I came accross that reports the story and mentions the word elitist.

Is Elizabeth Banks planning an elitist reform of the RHS?

I like people who stand up and speak their mind. Anyone who is able to defy convention and convey their ideas to a group or society, by standing up and making their mark, deserves some support.
Reading the 'BBC must end 'dumbed down' gardening shows says new RHS chief' brought a smile to my face and it seems the new RHS President, Elizabeth Banks, isn't worried about putting a few noses out of joint.
Elizabeth Banks was announced as RHS President on July 1st.
Good on her I thought; the BBC have spoiled Gardeners' World by concentrating on gimmicky production techniques rather than the raw gardening that (it seems) everyone else wants to watch.

Banks has accused the BBC of patronising people and 'talking down' and says that she is going to review the BBC's contract for its prestigious shows.
Banks wants the BBC to only use Latin plant names and said that the BBC are scared of being too snobby.
I'd got about half way through the article and I realised that this woman could actually be thinking of taking the RHS (or Royal Horticultural Society to use its snobbiest term) back to its elitist roots.
It's 2010 and more people than ever before are gardening and it's a multi-billion pound industry - it's also an industry that is literally going to save and change the world. The last thing we want to see now is some kind of gardening class apartheid.
The BBC and RHS issued separate statements that appeared at odds with Banks' views. The BBC said, "The BBC works very closely with the Royal Horticultural Society which has reiterated to us that it is delighted with our coverage of gardening and the relationship it has with the BBC.
“We absolutely refute any suggestion that the BBC's coverage of gardening is in any way 'dumbing down'. Gardeners' World's core values and passion remain the same with weekly tips and advice on what to do in your garden.
“Viewing figures are strong with an average of two million for the series this year, consistent with last year and attracting a higher share of the available audience than average for BBC TWO in peak time.”
Whilst an RHS spokesman said, ""The RHS enjoys a close and productive partnership with the BBC which involves regular discussions about editorial approach.
"We are delighted with the BBC’s coverage of the RHS shows and other activities, and with the BBC’s wider programming which helps to engage millions of listeners and visitors in all that gardening has to offer."
Do you have a thought?

Matthew had a thought, in a comment on this...

Matthew Kidd said...

Elizabeth Banks clearly is going to set the RHS back centuries and lose members by the wheelbarrow load. Does she really think that going back to being snobby and elitist is going to help grow the popularity of gardening and entice new people and beginner gardeners in? What an idiot.
Yet another upper class elitist RHS fool commenting about something she clearly knows nothing about.
Sounds like she's a loose cannon as clearly both the RHS and BBC press seem at odds with what she has said, and if she had watched Gardeners' World at all over the last few decades, she'd see that they always use botanical names with the common name underneath - they always have catered for both enthusiasts and beginner gardeners.
In the current climate the RHS are incredibly lucky to get the amount of coverage that they do on the BBC, particularly when it comes to Chelsea.
I'm all for people speaking their mind, but considering the amount of money that the RHS squeeze out of the BBC for such a blatant plug of their flower shows and their gardens on Gardeners' World, I think she should consider her comments first, and do some background research and get her facts correct.

Honestly, this makes me huff and puff. I'm struggling to describe how this makes me feel. I have been actively trying to learn the latin names for plants as a follow on what I was learning at crone school. I hadn't really thought about it too much until I saw it written down on our session plan as one of the aims for the course, to feel confident using the latin names. I suppose, in the context of a herbal remedy course, the importance of using the latin names becomes obvious.

You want to really know that you have the right plant.

Now we talked alot about how the common names can tell you much about the history and usage of plants, how if a plant had many names it usually indicated that it was very useful, as many different communities found it valuable enough to give it a name. We used common names and latin.

Now the thing with latin is that suddenly lots of other stuff begins to makes sense. You can see when plants are very closely related, when plants that have similar common names are different plants. You can ascertain the growing habit, the site it grows, the colour of the flowers or the style of the leaves. It is interesting and precise. Sometimes it is even pretty much the same word. It is just a name regardless of the fact it happens to be from a language most people have no connection to. It is really stupid for people to be saying it's elitist. I'm sorry, if all the labels in the garden centre only had the latin I don't think people would stop looking at the plant and thinking it'd be nice in their garden. It's the people saying this stuff that are perpetuating this idea. I think that beginner gardeners find the actual hands on learning the bit they have to grapple with, not if they can easily remember the name. It's all "that one with the purple flowers that the bees like". When I was beginning to learn I found remembering to water the hard bit.

And what's more, as far as I can see she was really commenting on how the gardening shows where really catering for the beginner level and not providing the more in depth information that might provide some actual learning to those who already have a grasp of the basics. Not how we should all abandon the word daisy. I don't have a tv so I don't catch the gardening shows. I am working through carol klein's book, grow your own garden, and off the top of my head I think she primarily uses latin names. It's fine, I look them up if I can't work it out from the photo. I don't mind not having it handed to me on a plate, I get to use some brain cells.

People can either be interested in plants or not. If they are, they'll probably get used to seeing a latin word and either remembering it or not. Seeing a sunflower seed grow is exciting either way. I'm going to look up the latin for sunflower in a second.

dream sheep lady

 

My gosh, isn't she great. 

Beate the sheep lady is my hero. I saw her on my dream farm trying to inspire the sappy alpaca lady into some kind of action. She is very much the woman I'd like to be, roaming about, catching lambs in my crook, wearing a combination of waxed cotton and chunky knits. I know my dream farm, as a tv show, sounds pretty naf but I actual have enjoyed watching it. Not least as I feel ralph and I have much more wits, knowledge and sense of the land between us than just about all of the folk they had on there. Possibly the ex-engineering executive excluded, she was pretty hot at it all. If monty thinks that some of these folk could actually make a go of it I really can't see why we couldn't. The thing I require is some bravery.

You can watch it here, I tried to get a clip from somewhere but failed. It's so nice to just have it here so folks don't have to go trekking off somewhere to see what you are talking about. Sorry I failed.

The bit with the sheep lady is at about 14.45, really just skip to that or you might not make it that far.

This is her shop and blog etc.

This is monty don.

I really wish I knew him, as if he was my next door neighbour or my husband. Ralph is obviously my monty, but better as he has a beard. And monty has a lovely wife already. I went on a hunt for some monty pictures and came accross this article in the daily mail. Crikey, those words I thought I'd never write...

Yew must be joking! Growers' fury at Monty Don's call to use only British plants

By REBECCA CAMBER
Last updated at 11:08 26 April 2008

They say you reap what you sow. And when Monty Don returned from a tour of the world's greatest gardens to extol the virtues of British plants above others, he presumably hoped to inspire.
Instead, the BBC presenter has ignited controversy by telling growers to stick to our native species and turf out foreign ones.
Scroll down for more...

Monty Don has been accused of losing the plot by other plant experts after he suggested that gardeners should stick to native species and turf out foreign plants

Don - who recently hosted the Around The World In 80 Gardens series - now stands accused of trying to uproot thousands of years of plant-collecting history in the UK.
At the Oxford Literary Festival, he told his audience: "British gardeners must learn to tell you a story through their gardens.
"Gardening with indigenous plants and working with nature by tweaking it is so much more interesting than imposing on to the natural world.
"The interesting gardens are related to geographical/historical/ personal context.
"Growing plants in a garden that would not exist without you is not very interesting."
In a recent interview, the Gardeners' World presenter - who has pledged to plant only native species in his Herefordshire garden - said: "Elsewhere in the world, indigenous plants play a key part in establishing national identity.
"We have an incredibly rich and fascinating plant heritage which we downplay - so I am planting oak, ash, hawthorn, yew, aspen and alder, as well as primroses, violets, roses."
But his rallying call met with a prickly reception.
Scroll down for more...

So, should we go native in our gardens? The rundown of British plants and their foreign friends

Dr Mark Johnstone, a lecturer at Myerscough College, Preston, and an expert on native versus foreign planting, said: "I'm amazed someone as high profile as Monty Don should recommend sticking to native British plants.
"He is confusing biodiversity and native plants. Plants and trees are used for social, economic and environmental reasons."
Luke Harding, manager of Westonbirt-plant centre, said: "Doing away with 'foreign' plants would effectively wipe out several thousand years of plant- collecting history.
"The vast array of non-native plants available in Britain is something that we are recognised for and that has given us our identity."
Nottingham University grounds manager Ian Cooke said: "Has Monty lost the plot? Does he think gardeners will take his suggestions seriously when we have a wonderful palette of exotic plants from around the world that seem to thrive in our unpredictable climate?"
Guy Barter, of the Royal Horticultural Society, said: "The RHS suggests that a range of native and non-indigenous garden plants are good for wildlife. There is no reason to restrict yourself to native plants, of which there are rather few.
"In fact it's essential for wildlife to have a healthy mix of native and non-native plants."

This is part of the problem I was talking about in my post about gqt. What he says makes so much sense and yet it has been rubbished. One of the comments on the article complained how she'd have to did up her whole garden if she were to follow this advice. What a total ignoramus. Gosh, plant what you like you loony but I dare say my garden will be much nicer than yours if you are unable to appreciate the subtlety of hawthorn. And I don't really follow the objectors argument, is there a plant from elsewhere that can be introduced to be really useful for biodiversity? If so, great if you like to grow it and it does no harm. But by the same token you could plant a really useful native plant and maybe it'd be working much more holistically, maybe it'd just be pleasant to have around, if there were no gardens, nature would be doing fine I think. The point is what monty says about imposing on nature, that not being very interesting. 

In my dream farm monty wears a shirt like this, all worn and soft. I have been keeping an eye out as there is usually something along the lines in toast but I think they have the heavier denim ones in the winter set of clothes. Makes sense.

 

There is this one in the sale and the shape is pretty much exactly what I'm after, just in something more substantial than the linen.

So, from hero rugged lady to looking at clothes.

gqt

Gardeners question time has really disappointed me. I genuinly looked forward to listening to it but these days I just can't beleive them. A few weeks ago it made me so angry I sent them an email as I was listening and then promptly had to send a second message as later on in that episode they talked some more nonsence.

This is what I said in the first message...

There was a question a little while back from an allotment holder who asked if we should be more keen to embrace "weeds" that install themselves on our plots and in gardens as most can be useful in some way (food/medicine etc). I feel that the panel dismissed this idea all to quickly and should have been able to share a more progressive insight. Nettles, herb robert, daisy just to name 3 could be useful and save us a job in removing them. It would be nice to hear GQT providing a more progressive view towards the many plants that go wasted and unloved as appreciating their worth could go along way towards improving understanding of the natural world to a much wider public audience. As a park ranger and a new allotment holder I find myself constantly defending a range of plants that have been wildly considered as weeds when actually they are  providers of a free cup of tea or a nice free salad!

Unfortunately I forgot to copy the second message but it basically said how I couldn't believe that they totally dismissed a question from the audience. Was there was anything from the plot that would normally go on the compost heap that could be used up instead of wasted? What a sensible question, I thought. No, no proper answers at all, just a joke. How disappointing. I do not understand why the gardening world finds it so hard to really look to nature and see the value it holds.


I can see how maybe gardening is seen as a battle against nature but surely we can emerge from the other side of this view, honestly, in this age. It's really not that radical. People are so bound.

Here is a photo of green alkanet. I put it in as there is a nice patch around a house near mine that keeps getting strimmed back, in order to make room for the beauty that is scraggy dry bare earth with litter on it. You can use it's roots for something useful but off the top of my head I cant remember.

making salwar

 I would really like these, but I think they are not only too expensive but also sold out. Toast. Ticking. Salwar.

 I will use this to try to make some myself.

pattern

equus asinus for ralph

I found out today that donkeys do in fact have a use (when you probably won't need them for carrying your things about). Apparently their milk is super wholesome and is used in soap and whatnot. I think I thought the cleopatra story was talking about milk from a kind of snake. I feel a bit silly now, hmmm. Asp?

There are some exciting kinds too, this woolly one, woolly paramo donkey, I think is from high places in south america...

And this kind has dreadlocks like those dogs, donkey is baudet de poitou...

 Ralph, I think we can have some.

crickets making a mess

The crickets for the geckos dinner are quite messy for little creatures but even more messy are the men that play cricket in the car park over the way from our house.

I already have an uneasy feeling about the way they use the car park in the evenings for their game as it means people have to walk all around them to get to the path on the other side or get in the way. I'm sure they'd stop for you but it's a bit of an imposition and embarrassing to have to walk through.

However my main beef is that the men have left a huge mess. They wrap tennis balls in electrical tape, I guess to make them more like cricket balls, but when this wears a bit they take it off and throw it on the floor. This is not nice, surely they could take it and put it in the bin?

bindweed is a weed

We were in trouble with the allotment again last month.

Re: Plot 30 Oliver Road
18.6.10

Dear Lyndsay and Ralph,

We inspected on Wednesday 16.6.10. I attach two photographs. You have had the tenancy for this plot for 6 months now and not enough has been achieved. I do not think that either of you realise the commitment necessary to work an allotment. We extended your probationary period because of the difficult weather over the winter months.
4. To maintain all plots occupied by the tenant in a clean, well-manured, three-quarters cultivated and weed free state using techniques which do not cause long term environmental damage and display the plot number clearly.

The common paths alongside your plot are in a dangerous state and must be dealt with ASAP.
6. To maintain any path or roadway, set out by the Council for use of occupiers, free from obstruction and encroachment and at the widths set by the Council, a minimum of 600mm.

A few days of consistent work from both of you would see the plot dug over, roots and weeds cleared.
Obviously circumstances have not allowed you to work an allotment and it remains in an unacceptable state.

If at the time of the July inspection the plot remains unkempt we will address the issue through a Notice to Quit. This is our final warning.


Thank you for your co-operation in this matter.

Jos El Zahar
Secretary to Leyton Allotment Society  

The strawberry patch that you so proudly photographed has been allowed to revert to jungle conditions again.  


There were some photos in there too but they didn't copy across. The picture at the top is a lovely one I took whilst sheltering from the sun, laying down.

We were not so much sad and shocked this time as cross. I think mostly due to the 'find an angle to take a photo where all you can see is grass and none of the plants are in frame' business going on. So here goes...

Dear Jos,

Once again we are saddened to have received an e-mail stating your dissatisfaction at at the way we are managing our plot.

Please could you clarify which plants are not allowed on the plot, for example which are seen as problem weeds (other than the bind weed and potentilla which we are working to control)? Is there a cutting height for grass that we are meant to adhere to? We particularly ask this as we were looking to incorporate some of the existing grass into our growing scheme.

We were unaware of the specific 600mm regulation required for the adjoining path, we will check this measurement on our next visit and ensure that, for our section of the path, this distance is kept clear. We are obviously making an assumption that it is the wild grass that you refer to, or is the "dangerous state" in reference to another issue we are unaware of?


You e-mail is disparaging and hostile, particularly the un-clarified use of quotes from the Allotment tenancy rules and conditions and the closing remark,
    "The strawberry patch that you so proudly photographed has been allowed to revert to jungle conditions again."

We do not feel that this tone is either warranted or appropriate.


We are clearly cultivating crops and managing areas according to a plan for how we can develop the plot according to our own needs. This did not include a kind of "scorched earth policy" on removing all existing growth. Rather a development of areas, over time, to sustain a healthy growing environment that supplies not only food and flowers but is able to support a wider usage of plant material, both cultivated and wild, as well as encouraging an ecosystem that is of value to plants, wildlife and us as users.

If certain plants are againts allotment rules we will be happy to remove them, but can see no mention of specifics.

If you could please clarify the points raised so we are able to make any adjustments before your next inspection?

Regards,

Lyndsay Officer and Ralph Dorey

Hi Lyndsay and Ralph

Thank you for your rapid response.  Please come into the Trading Shed on a Sunday morning between 10 and 12 and when we can show you examples of plots which you should be emulating.  

Grass is a weed unless kept at lawn level.  Bindweed is a weed.  Potentilla is a shrub with a yellow flower and just needs digging out.

If you cannot eat it or it a recognisable flower in a flower bed it it is a weed.

Paths are dangerous when users cannot see the edge clearly and long grass or weeds restrict progress.  All paths should be kept at a minimum of 600mm or 2 ft in order to allow access for a gurney used by ambulance staff.  Please read your Tenancy Agreement rules.  Society rules are in Flickr Leyton Allotment Society Group and advice is available at the shed or via a member of the committee.

You are not keeping an allotment plot as expected - again I quote from your Tenancy Rules 4. To maintain all plots occupied by the tenant in a clean, well-manured, three-quarters cultivated and weed free state using techniques which do not cause long term environmental damage and display the plot number clearly.

Your plot needs to be dug through at least a spade deep - I would double dig it, removing all roots and rubbish incorporating any compost that you may have to hand.  Then plant. Then maintain a clean plot.  In six months there is little evidence of a plan, little evidence of clearance, planting and maintenance.

Walk around the site, you can see plenty of good clean plots.  You have good examples around your own plot.  We all manage plots in different ways but cleanliness and good growing techniques are common to all gardeners and there is so much advice available that there is no excuse.  It is essential that any plant does not invade neighbouring plots.  

You are welcome to join an inspection to try and understand the standards set. I am sorry that you find my email disparaging and hostile.  I do not have time to pussyfoot around and try to make my letters to the point and therefore clear.  We were very disappointed that new plot holders had not made significant inroads into clearing and cultivating a plot within a considerable time span.  If newcomers do not have the commitment and enthusiasm to tackle the work it does not look good for the future when the novelty has worn off.

I could go on.  I hope this helps.

Jos El Zahar

Secretary to Leyton Allotment Society

Dear Jos

Thank you for clarifying the rules regarding grass and weeds. Are the rules on your Flickr page the same as those on the Waltham Forest Website? Thank you for your offer of showing us example plots however tomorrow is not one of our days for coming down this week. If you have any specific questions we would be happy to clarify our thoughts on the management of our plot.

Please could you advise us on the dates for the next inspections?

Kind Regards
Ralph Dorey and Lyndsay Officer

All sites are inspected monthly - roughly - not to the date.

I have attached the Tenancy Rules and the constitution of the Society which includes the rules laid done by the membership.  The rules of the Society are subject to change following decisions reached at the AGM.  The Tenancy Rules have recently been updated - I do not know what is held on the LBWF website. 

Jos El Zahar

Secretary to Leyton Allotment Society

I'm not sure I really need to say too much about the responses given.

Although the allotment rules have very few mentions of specifics it seems in practice there is a very narrow view of how the plots are to be managed. I mostly think though that this is bullying with the aim to push out those who have been judged as not taking it seriously. The problem with this tactic is that it is unable to distinguish between those who are unable, un-motivated or oblivious and those who have a different idea of how plants can be grown. The other problem is that it's just rude. Not once have we been asked what we might be aiming for or if there is anything we would like help with.

We are told we can be shown plots that we should be emulating.

Anyway, the plot is great, we have had some courgettes.

other nails

Some more nail varnish, colours I like, not so many nasty things in it. Buy one get one free as I write this. Grey and peach.

on projects

It seem that most 'good work' that is to be done is now done as part of a project.
There is a project to paint the park railings, a project to plant some trees, a project to encourage parents to take their children to the park so they can be healthy. And this seems to cross all fields. It seems that any actual things that need to be done can be packed into a project and either funded or not, either done or not.

These things, if they are worth doing in the first place should be done as a matter of course and projects mean that some of them can be passed over and that the others can be made up to look like some wonderful glitzy present but may not have the genuine content that would have made the thing a good thing.

Projects mean that a thing can look good and that people can get away without considering it's aspects properly and more money that is necessary is spent.

I'm not sure about a picture for this, sorry.

educations

A facebook friend posted this..



www.ted.com

I'm on and off interested in education, I began to embark on a career in art education before I turned ranger. I stopped because I didn't like working with people who were so caught up in the idea of spectacular education projects that they weren't really thinking about what the people were actually learning. Or at least a kind of difference between what it looked like everyone was doing and what thinking was really being done. It's that thing where its so great when an artist comes into a class and gets the kids all whipped up, using the materials in a way they don't usually and everyone has a great time. The artist ends up with some spectacular photos of kids with paint all over their faces, the kids had fun.

But no one continued a conversation about what was being done. No one challenged decisions. No one asked any why questions. People didn't learn that much. A teacher should do more than just let stuff happen. Lyndsay hates fun again.


Anyway. So I think about education. Ralph is a teacher, I try to teach the children in the park things.

I like what is said in the presentation above but I was mostly interested in the comments. It was a while ago now that I watched the video and read through the comments so they may have changed by now. But the thing that struck me most was the ideas surrounding who would clean our toilets if every child had been educated to know that they should follow their own interests and not feel compelled to fit the current job market setup. I just checked back now and I can't see the conversation so maybe the comment has been removed. But there was lots of talk about how the world would grind to halt if people had the where withall to not work in a factory or as a cleaner, you know all the jobs you wouldn't want to do.

Obviously, this disussion in itself has become a joke because the people arguing this issue placed themselves outside. Well if no one wanted to clean the toilets for money then you would have to make some decisions. Do I make this toilet dirty, do I clean up my mess? Do I clean up that selfish persons mess now I have seen there is some mess? Do I try and give a fiver to that guy over there to clean the toilet for me? This toilet is messy, do I still use it? Do I not rely on the fact that public toilets have been provided for me, now they are most likely dirty? Do I consider, before I leave the house, what I would do, should I need the toilet? Do I have to take responsibilty for the fact I might, at some point, need to wee?

If no one was there to clean the toilet then you would have to think about it. You.